Part of what I love to do is connect with people and share their stories. Here’s an interview with who has to be one of the best coaches I’ve ever worked with: Adam Daugherty, MBA, Certified Crossfit Trainer (Level 3). He’s a Crossfit Coach and former gym owner living in Detroit with over 12,000 hours of coaching under his belt. While most people would say 10,000 hours equals mastery, he explains why that’s actually a load of crap. He shares his experience with finding his calling as a coach, what most coaches get wrong, and how he uses that to help people breed consistency in their fitness journey.

It’s an insightful conversation whether you’re in the fitness world or not and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

In the words of Adam: “I feel like everybody has the ability to be great at something. The people that aren't or don't feel like that's true just have not figured out what they can be great at.”

The audio (with timestamps) and transcript are available below, along with some of my favorite quotes and insights from Adam. 

Some favorite quotes

• It's easier to have an impact on one person [than many]. In an hour, you can fundamentally change the way one person does something.

• [The key is] figuring out how to motivate people and learning how to motivate people in different ways, right? Some people you can yell at…but some people aren't like that. Some people immediately hate you, some people go into a hole, and it makes them worse.

• I make the assumption that people want to be here, I make the assumption that they want to better themselves. And then you try and find ways to foster that and make it enjoyable. 

• The coaches that weren't very good were the ones that were trying to be something that they weren't. Or they were trying to get you to be something that you weren't as an athlete, as opposed to being a better version of what you were.

• It needs to be that you know who you are, you at least have a good idea of who you’re working with, and then you build a relationship or a channel of communication to allow them to push themselves. 

• But if you create the environment, that they can enjoy being around each other, then that removes reasons for them not to come in. Right. And then it becomes a question of somebody staying safe and healthy. If somebody consistently keeps doing that, it's almost impossible for them not to get fitter.

• If I didn't love being at the gym, and love working out, this all would be irrelevant. So we need to as coaches or as gym owners, or box owners, or whatever it is, we need to find a way to create the environment that people genuinely like being in, because then it doesn't matter if they're motivated, that they're not, they're going to show up, and they're going to be more and more and more successful.

• The downside of being the person who works for a living to help people is that you always want to help people. And you never really admit you don't have the ability to help people. So you're trying to find the ways through it yourself first. And then if you get to the point, you just have to admit to yourself, right, like you have to admit to them, you have to get them to admit to themselves. 

• If you come to me and you're paying me or the gym money, and asking me to help you. If I'm not helping you and I'm taking your money, then I'm an asshole, essentially. Helping you might be telling you to do something else.

• If I wasn't doing this for a living, I would still be in a gym every day myself. I would still be the person that I'm coaching.

• But right around 9,000 to 10,000 hours is where I was terrified because I really started to learn what I did not know. And while I knew more than most people, the holes that I was seeing. 

• I know 95% of this concepts, but the 5%, I don't know, makes me feel incredibly inferior, even though 99% of the people next to me have no clue what that 5% even is yet because they haven't gotten to that point.

• I feel like everybody has the ability to be great at something. The people that aren't or don't feel like that's true. I've just not figured out what they can be great at. 

Timestamps

1:15- How Adam reacts to having only 1 person show up for class

3:30- Coach who made the biggest impact on Adam 

14:20 The most important thing coaches get wrong

18:50 How to help people breed consistency in their fitness 

22:30 Why CrossFit isn’t right for everyone

25:00 Adam’s journey before he found coaching

32:00 Pivoting his life plans after injury

37:30 Finding CrossFit, his path to becoming a coach

44:30 How he realized this is what he was meant to do 

49:40 Biggest challenge/growth area

51:05 What he’s excited about for the future

53:50 Why “10k hours to get to mastery” is a load of crap

56:15 What drives Adam

1:00 The only 2 things that limits people’s potential

Transcript

Jolie Higazi  00:01

All right. So let's start. Yeah, I love how like calm and you're better than I am. So I have some Oh, yeah. Because I'm not the one leading the conversation, but you're the one that's providing all the meat to this conversation at the same time.

Adam Daugherty  00:24

Yes, but I just follow you. So it's easier. 

Jolie Higazi  00:27

Well, I think it'll be a dance at the end of it, right. It's like a conversation. But like I was saying, the purpose of this is so that people, whether they're inside the fitness industry, or even outside, they could probably learn something from you and your experiences over the years, your wisdom, where you failed, where you've succeeded and learn some what's made you so unique and so successful in what you do. So that's what we'll dive into my good deep might might not well hit fitness and not fitness personal like, Well, we'll see where we end up go for. So I like to start not in a conventional spot. 

Jolie Higazi  01:07

So I wanted to start with a memory that I have of you. And when I think of you the one memory that I have is there was one class that I registered for. And I came in and it turns out that I was the only one there. Yeah, it was here. It was one morning. Do you remember it? 

Adam  01:26

No.

Jolie Higazi  01:29

Well, I came in, and no one else was there. 

Adam Daugherty  01:32

Oh, yes, I do. 

Jolie Higazi  01:32

And immediately I felt such guilt of like 

Adam Daugherty  01:35

It was the wall balls. 

Jolie Higazi  01:36

It was the wall balls. Yeah. And immediately, I think I said to you, oh my god, I bet you were hoping nobody came. And do you remember what you said?

Adam Daugherty  01:44

That's boring? Well, I'd rather people come because then at least I can do something.

Jolie Higazi  01:49

You said I, I was actually hoping that only one person. And then that moment, it changed the whole outlook of my my whole workout, my whole outlook of your role. You're not just here and hoping nobody comes. So it's like a free hour. You want to make a difference? And if you could do that one to one, at least you convinced me in that moment. You better yeah. So that's a moment, 

Adam Daugherty  02:14

It's easier to have impact right on one person. In an hour, you can fundamentally change the way one person does something, you can probably do it with two, as well. But you probably can't do it for 10 people at one time. So it's a little bit easier. And at will there was a wall balls, a lot of wall balls. And there were things I wanted to change about how most people were doing wall balls. So I was glad that somebody came in so that I could change the way that they did wall balls. Because I think was it was it a Tuesday or Thursday was one of them. Because I think it was a Thursday because I think I had three classes that day. So I was like, yes, there's gonna be like a whole bunch of people gonna get the fix the way that we're doing wall balls that wall balls aren't as terrible anymore. And then I think it was a decent sized first class and it was a decent sized evening class. And then you really want it 645 I was like, No, I wanted people to come in today to do the wall balls. Thank God, God, thank God somebody showed up.

Adam Daugherty  02:25

Yeah. It's stuck in my memory, even though it was like a year ago or so. So I'm curious for you, do you have any of those moments in your life or in your career where someone just made that much of an impact of that moment just really changed the way that you saw something going forward?

Adam Daugherty  03:41

Meaning specifically with coaching, or fitness, or just in general can be anything. I don't know. I take probably some of my coaching style stuff from different people. My high school basketball coach. So probably playing against several guys and other teams that are taller than me. We didn't win a lot of games, my junior and senior year, but we had a coach that was 6’2 maybe like 300 pounds was a younger guy and somebody that we all got along with pretty well. So you would hop in and play with us sometimes and just completely beat the crap out of us just like throw us up and down the court essentially. Pretty demanding, but also somebody that you really liked. And he really got into people and push them, but did it in a way that at least for those of us that would consider ourselves competitors was enjoyable. Right? So it wasn't just yelling to yell, it was yelling to get you to be better. So it was kind of figuring out how to motivate people and learning how to motivate people in different ways, right? Like, not everybody, some people you can yell at, when I was younger, you could probably yell at me. And I would just go into a dark place in a shell and I would outwork everybody, right, like, I would just hold myself essentially. And it was fine, because I could run through a brick wall, and do it and do it and do it again until I eventually got better and better. But some people aren't like that some people immediately hate you, some people go into a hole, and it makes them worse, right. Whereas I would have a head coach for --that was basketball--head coach for baseball, when I was around the same age, that was like a traveling team. And his biggest concept was community, I guess you would call it. So we always travelled together in certain ways, how we paired people up in rooms when we were on the road, and stuff like that. And he really didn't do that much coaching, like in game coaching and stuff, he really didn't do that much practice coaching. Partly because we didn't practice a lot, we're constant playing, but just the whole concept of taking kids that you know, want to be there and want to work hard and are pretty good. Right? Some of them are really good. Some of them are pretty good. And just getting them, putting them in an environment that that got them to push themselves to win games, because you already had pick the kids that you knew wanted to win games, right? So like, at the time, you kind of wonder, alright, he's not really helping us get any better. And you because you're living in the bubble in the moment, right? Like he's, he's really only interested in us having fun and enjoying this. But we were super successful. I think we went like 79, one year. During the summer, we won through the bigger tournaments in the East Coast. And we only had two guys that played Division One baseball. Wow, they both got drafted. So like, they were very good. But the rest of us were, you know, Division Three division two athletes if they did play college baseball kind of thing. But what I eventually came to realize was, because it was like an invitation tryout kind of team, he had probably picked the kids that he knew wanted to be there. Which if you think about it, like transitioning this to like a conversation about CrossFit and coaching, nobody walks in his door that doesn't want to be here, right? Like especially at 530 and 645 in the morning. So I can make that assumption as a coach. And I think he made that assumption, because he put himself in a position to make that assumption. It was also kind of an expensive team. So right off the bat, like if they don't want to be there, their parents aren't going to pay for them to be there kind of a thing. And then he took that, and he created an environment around it. And I think that has been something that pretty much in everything is kind of worn off me like I make the assumption that people want to be here, I make the assumption that they want to better themselves. And then you try and find ways to foster that and make it enjoyable. Right. And I've had different coaches along with assistant coaches for baseball bats, or whatever. And they've all kind of had their own personalities, right. And the one thing you you tend to learn from these people, because these are probably the people that I spent the majority of my life round other than, you know, parents and brother and stuff like that, is that the ones that were really good at what they were doing, were the ones that took their personality and tried to find a way to blend it with the other person's personality. Right. So like mine, in this circumstance, the coaches that weren't very good, were the ones that were trying to be something that they weren't. Or they were trying to get you to be something that you weren't as an athlete, as opposed to being a better version of what you were.

Jolie Higazi  09:03

Can you give an example.

Adam Daugherty  09:04

We had a coach once that had amazing assistant coaches. And every one of them was great, and none of them ever stuck around. And the head coach was not a baseball man, other sports other things along the way and just happened to be a baseball coach for whatever reason. And I don't know if it was young in the coaching career or whatever. But every guy on the team had played baseball since they were little kids, right? So we're talking some of us are like 20 years in the playing baseball. And we're they're playing at a time when it's not easy to be there because you have lots of other demands on your time and lots of other responsibilities so to speak. So everybody's making that commitment. They're not getting paid for it. They're not you know, not getting a scholarship for it, stuff like that. And just as he's trying to be He this big time baseball coach, and he's trying to put on this persona that we all know isn't real, because we've been around baseball coaches our entire lives. And not that he wasn't a good coach or anything along the way. But it just it created this weird dynamic with the players, where everybody was immediately at arm's length, I guess is the PG way of saying it, right. And then it becomes really hard to earn the players respect, right? So if I came in, and I was super rigid in class, and super demanding, and something along those lines, and you could tell that I was working really hard to be this, and it wasn't natural, I was forcing it, then I don't think people would buy in as smoothly and easily on a day to day basis in class, right? Like, it's, it needs to be you know who you are, you at least have a good idea of who the person you're working with is. And then you find a way from there to create a, hopefully in the long run and run a relationship, or at the very least a channel of communication, that allows them to push themselves. Right. So over the years, I've decided that fitness is a very basic concept, or at least in terms of the classes across the gym, really, whatever it is, right? As an owner, as a coach, if I can get people to stay safe in class, meaning they aren't hurting themselves, they are capable of continuing to come in day after day, if I can create an environment where they enjoy themselves, and they have fun, or they enjoy the people around them, right, which is a little bit of the coach and a little bit not of the coach, right? Like you have to get a little lucky that there's people there. But you have to also be receptive enough that people want to be around you. So that kind of fosters that community. But if you create the environment, that they can enjoy being around each other, then that removes reasons for them not to come in. Right. And then it becomes a question of somebody staying safe and healthy. They can keep coming in Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, whatever it is, I mean, obviously off days, but and if they enjoy coming in, now they have an emotional attachment to coming in. If somebody consistently keep doing that, it's almost impossible for them not to get fit, which means it's almost impossible for them not to achieve their goal depending on how aggressive their goal is. Right? So you're, if I'm making like a, I'm creating rules and teaching mechanisms way of thinking of this, I'm removing all the path is passive resistance, right for both them and the concept of fitness and the communication between the two, and then the class environment. Right. If we get rid of these barriers, or these these mobilizations between whatever the two sides are, then it doesn't necessarily become easy, but it removes hurdles. And it removes things from the path where they can be more successful or have at least a likelihood, a higher likelihood of success. So spinning all the way back to the initial question. That's kind of the primary things that I've taken from the people that were sort of in pursuits that I am now, I guess, is that they, the ones that were better at what they did coaching, were the ones that kind of understood who they were understood who you were as an athlete, and then didn't force it. Right, like they, I can always want to use them or the word manipulation here, even though isn't really a manipulation. But just you lay out the path, right, and then you you work the path with the person or with the group, so that they can keep moving forward down the path as opposed to having barriers or things in their way that you created or saw or didn't see coming but didn't also help foster get passed. If that makes sense.

Jolie Higazi  14:24

It's interesting hearing you say this, as a coach with over 12,000 hours with decades of experience, who's one of the best at your craft, you just compare it to some of the other coaches that you're saying the most important thing is actually not all the mechanics that you know and the mechanisms it's something more personal dedication.

Adam Daugherty  14:46

Right like this business meaning fitness, meaning CrossFit gyms, whatever degree you want to look at it. And I don't want to, I don't want to poopoo it and say it has very little to do with fitness. and training and stuff like that. But it's significantly less than most people think. And I think that's probably one of the biggest problems. So if there was like a, what is your, your best piece of advice for new gym owners or, you know, whatever you want to call them, it's that the technical science training side of it is not the most important thing. The most important thing is that you're in a people business. And that you have to be good with dealing with people and learning how to work with and treat people and building relationships with people. Because you can be phenomenal at the other stuff. And still very easily fail. If you're in a hole, or you just can't connect with people on a lesser level. I've seen people be terrible at the science side of it. And because they're very good at the people side of it, the business is successful, they are successful. And as I mentioned earlier, like that simplicity of the equation, if people are coming to a workout every day, they're enjoying it, and they're coming back. And they're challenging themselves, but they're staying healthy, they're going to get fit, right, just the action of exercise. And within the training room, a lot of us talk about the difference between training and exercise stipulations, that's irrelevant, if they are exercising every day, or consistently, let's call it a safe way, and they're in a safe way and they're showing up and they're enjoying themselves, then they're going to keep progressing and getting fitter, there almost isn't a way around that. Right? So and I don't want to make that seem like I don't put any incentive or intelligence into the science side of it, right? Like that is important. But it's not the most important piece for two people, for myself, and for you, in the circumstance of being the athlete, right? Like I can give you the best workouts ever, I can tell you exactly what to do exactly how to do it. But if I don't foster a desire, or a motivation, inside of you to have consistency of doing that, it doesn't matter because you're not going to do it. Right, like you see people fail all the time, because they can't consistently show up. And for whatever reason, they can't make that connection with, I just need to be here and enjoy myself and make this part of my life. I think a lot of times that's people are always looking for Fitness Motivation, right? Like, it's probably one of the biggest hashtags on Instagram. It's great, but it doesn't necessarily breed consistency over the long term. Right? Like I've always myself, look for different little tasks or chores, or motivators, like you know, competing in the open or competing in the qualifier as a Master's athlete, or whatever it is, right, maybe trying to do a triathlon or something. And that gives me short term motivation to pursue something and try and maintain a greater consistency on a daily basis. But if I didn't love being at the gym, and love working out, that all would be irrelevant. So we need to as coaches or as gym owners, or box owners, or whatever it is, we need to find a way to create the environment that people genuinely like being in, because then it doesn't matter if they're motivated, that they're not, they're going to show up, and they're going to be more and more and more successful. And then technically, in the long run, you should also as a coach, or as an owner be more and more and more successful.

Jolie Higazi  18:27

Do you feel like most coaches take some of that responsibility on themself for the success? Not the success so much, but the consistency part and helping them want to come back? Versus just putting it on them? And saying, I'll teach you how to do it. Right, you have to want to come?

Adam Daugherty  18:45

Yeah. So in terms of people showing up, in which case, you know, we're basically talking about consistency. You can create and foster an environment, you can build relationships and use that as a motivator and incentive, you know, whatever it is to get people to commit, to get them to try and get to that consistent consistency you're talking about. In the end, when it comes down to it, in terms of if we're fighting too hard to try and create that consistency and that growth. This isn't always the case, I guess, for coaches, but specifically for me, and where I've been the last couple of years, I'm working with adults. And as adults, we're going to either make the decision to come in or not. Right, as an athlete, so I can do everything I can possibly do. And a lot of times over the last 12 years or so that has happened right? There have obviously been people that you go out of your way you do this you do that you find really good environments from the beach and really good class times you try and remove all the barriers, the hurdles they have. My work schedule is this well, why don't you come in at this time and We'll find a way to introduce you to these people so you can make friends, and all those things. In the end, there will always be, unfortunately, people that create reasons not to do that, right? And maybe the answer is they should be doing something else. Maybe there isn't anything on the planet, that's going to be what they want to do. Right, and maybe they just don't enjoy the fitness enough. So everybody, in my opinion kind of has a level of enjoyment, for working out that they need to have to be able to maintain it. Right, like not everybody needs to love it as much as I do to come in on a daily basis. Some people don't even have to love coming to the gym and working out to be able to keep coming in. But they have some attachment to it, that gets them to show up, whether that's being around the people that are in class, right. So if you have a core group of friends that you work out with four or five days a week, you can hate the workouts, but enjoy being around the people enough that they will get you to show up. Yeah, in which case, you foster that environment somehow. In which case, that person is going to eventually accomplish their fitness goals, because their friends are getting them to show up, right. So it's like positive peer pressure, if you will. But you're always going to find that person now maybe you have to dig a little bit deeper and find out what their actual impediments are. Maybe they're terrible sleeping, thus, are never recovered and rested. And they're always mood and mean, like they don't want to be maybe they're depressed, right, like COVID just happened, we just went through the pandemic, there was people everywhere that were depressed out the wazoo. There are always reasons why. Whether or not you can help somebody through those reasons, though, is not only up to you, but it's being meaning me the coach, it's up to them as the athlete or them as the person that's coming in to train as well. So you know, you do what you can you try and follow the process and find different ways and channels of communication that can flow through that process. But at some point, it seems like there's always going to be certain people that just object. And hopefully those people find another realm of fitness, find a different method, whether it's like doing triathlons or, you know, going on bike rides, or running the marathon or something along those lines that does that for them. Because not everybody is going to enjoy the same stuff, or be able to consistently make the same stuff happen. Right, and there's been, I don't know, probably a handful, five or six people over the course of 12 years that I've probably talked to in class, and and I know this is gonna work for you. But I don't think you enjoy this enough that it's going to make sense. So ‘talk to me about what you actually like doing’ kind of a conversation.

Jolie Higazi  23:16

To have that conversation, you're not afraid of it.

Adam Daugherty  23:19

Well, I would rather exhaust other means, right? Like, you still want to communicate with the person because that's also kind of the downside of being the person who works for a living to help people is that you always want to help people. And you never really admit you don't have the ability to help people. So you're trying to find the ways through it yourself first. And then if you get to the point, you just have to admit to yourself, right, like you have to admit to them, you have to get them to admit to themselves. And sometimes it's like, okay, well, that person lost 30 pounds doing Zumba two years ago. Go try Zumba again. Right? Like, maybe you come back to CrossFit, or PT work or whatever personal training or whatever that kind of training that you're working with them is. Or maybe you don't, but at the very least, like, you come to me and you're paying me or the gym money, and asking me to help you. If I'm not helping you and I'm taking your money, then I'm an asshole, essentially, right like helping you might be telling you to do something else. In which case, hopefully you learned something over the course of time that you were paying me the money. But then you're not going to be using it on something that's going to possibly make you more depressed or more upset or more stressed out or beaten down on a daily basis kind of thing. So theoretically, no, I'm not scared of the conversation. But I hold it off as long as I can until it's an obvious you know, kind of scenario.

Jolie Higazi  24:51

You can tell even with such a simple question, the amount of thought that you give your brain goes everywhere to your work, but I think it also just speaks See, you're in your element. This is I don't want to speak for you, but it's like this is your best life is being in the fitness world. So I did do a little bit of research here. Okay. All right, I have to get a little stalkery. But you didn't start this way. Right? So close it when you went to school for marketing business, right? You are Director of Marketing Marketing Consultant, sales manager, a brand app analysis an analyst up until, was it around 2006? or so? Looks like 2009 was your first fitness job. Tell me what, what was your original plan?

Adam Daugherty  25:39

Okay, so my original plan was actually to go to physical therapy school. And being from Northeast Ohio, Youngstown area, there was at the time, no to, to good programs, Slippery Rock in Pennsylvania, and Hiram. And what I probably wanted to do more was play baseball, when I got to college, because that's all I ever did was during the spring, during the summer during the fall, play baseball in there and play basketball in winter. And both of those programs, at least at the time, were essentially a three year undergrad and then a three year graduate program. So me being a stupid 18 year old kid was like, I can't play four years of baseball, I don't want to go into those programs, I'll find something else to do. So ended up in Mount Union. Because there was a couple guys that I played with. And I knew the school was good for a liberal arts school. And I could play baseball and it was relatively close. There was a girl dating at the time, they still live in my hometown. So you know, all these dumb reasons you guys hear coming out of my mouth, right? That you're like, is such a dumb 18 year old kid, like shouldn't have made it on these reasons. We all Yeah, right. So I went, and I was like, Well, what should I do? I'm, if I remember correctly, I'm pretty good at math. I like the idea of business and stuff like that. So I think I probably around somewhere through the first half of my freshman year decided in business. And I ended up with a master's in marketing, because I had my first marketing class and it was a blast made total sense to me, like the whole human behavior side of it seemed like something that would be fun to do, because at the same semester, I also took my first accounting class, and it was just an insane drag. So it was like, Okay, well, clearly, this is the more enjoyable path. So I ended up with a major in marketing, a minor in accounting, a minor in economics. And then had a bunch of legs, some socio economic classes, like human behavior kind of stuff. And then, ironically, I broke my kneecap and half tore my labrum off my throwing shoulder. So I only played really three years of baseball anyway. So that was kind of a buzzkill. But it was kind of like, oh, there's that karma coming back to get you for your dumb decision making earlier on. Ended up going to grad school, mostly because it just didn't really like what I saw from job opportunities

Adam Daugherty  28:18

So business at this point, right. So I was when I quit playing baseball, around spring trip, so March of my senior year, so there's like three months left in the school year, essentially. And then was kind of forced to focus on what am I going to do next. Didn't really like any ideas and the job decided, why not go to grad school, I'm probably going to have to have an MBA at some point, right from in this world, based on moving up the ladder and what I'm seeing from the corporate world, marketing, advertising, stuff like that. Maybe it'll give me a leg up. So I went to grad school. I was used to working nonstop, so to speak. So like you have your classes in the morning. You go and you work out and you train, you go and you study, you go and you go to practice, you come home and you get your work done. And then you go to bed, right? So I'm going to grad school, and I'm making my schedule. And I'm like, hey, you know I really don't want to be here that long. Like this is just kind of buying me time to find a job but I also want to get this done. So I gave myself ridiculous schedules. I took like six classes, the seven classes at a time. certain points. I was working at the Football Hall of Fame on free internship because it's giving me credits but also because it was cool. I was working retail, so like just nonstop stuff. Well, I wish somebody would have told me a time. It's more enjoyable if you stay in college longer. Because I got a year and I had my fall semester my spring semester and then I was on pace to finish That summer in the MBA program, and there were two classes left one was in the second piece one was in the third piece. And they will let me take them at the same time, because I would had the miss one class of each of them. So upset by that, because they get to literally finish an MBA program in 12 months. And that feels like an accomplishment for some silly reason. But ended up going in the fall taking other classes. And yeah, so my background is business stuff. One of my professors there was a consulting guy did a lot of brand consulting stuff. So this is kind of back. Right around the time when people were really starting to talk about the experience economy, right? Like, what are people Starbucks, let's say, for example, that you come in the baristas talk to you in a certain way, they make you feel cool, and they create this whole vibe, right? And this will come back and getting fluctuated into the gym environment. So I started doing that sort of working with him. And right around that time, somebody talked me into doing CrossFit, like as an athlete. And I was like, I don't know this, this seems like it's kind of douchey to use a silly word, or like it doesn't make because it was very local at the time, right? Like people are jumping on boxes and fields through their competitions. There's nothing really regimented about it hasn't really been created all that much yet.

Jolie Higazi  31:21

Can I pause you for a second? You just skimmed over how you loved lived, breathed baseball? And then you messed up your shoulder? Yep, tore your kneecap. Yep. That must have been one of the hardest times in your life.

Adam Daugherty  31:39

Absolutely. I couldn't, I couldn't—so the unknown information here, when you tear your labrum the way I tore it off my shoulder, they had to reattach it in a different spot, right, that's just kind of how they do that surgery, sometimes if it's not enough there to get it back. So you lose the elasticity in your short. But you also lose the ability to create and control and slow down your arm. And so basically, I couldn't throw, before I tore my shoulder had a cannon. After I tore my shoulder, I did not advocate. So I couldn't really play anymore in the field. I could hit. But it was kind of this whole mindset of I'm the person that's used to playing nonstop and not sitting on the bench for most of the game and then getting like an a bat. So it just didn't, I couldn't find a way emotionally to make it work, where I could perform as the hitter and not have to be in the field the rest of the game, right? So it was one of those things was like, alright, well, you can stay on the team and you can travel all over the place. And then you have no idea what you're going to be doing in three months. Or you can quit now. Let one of the So ironically, one of the kids that grew up playing with my brother was on the team. And if I quit before spring training or the spring trip, he as a freshman would have gotten my spot, which allowed hopefully allowed him to make progress and eventually start playing more and more and more, because I think he deserved it. So it was either I can do this now. And I can go and probably play a little bit. And yeah, it'll be fun. We'll be in Florida, but honestly, I also have to sit on the bus for 36 hours straight going back and forth. So it kind of sucks. But, you know, there's all kinds of reasons for it. But yeah, it was it was probably a really annoying, terrible decision to have to make. Because at that point, that was the first time that and I you know obviously kept working out because like I said, I've like been in the gym. I love training. But that was the first time since I was probably 14 When I started working out Why didn't have something to work out for. Right? And it was just going to grad school like I'm in the gym every day working out or five days, whatever it is week, but I'm just kind of workout

Jolie Higazi  33:56

That can be so soul crushing for people.

Adam Daugherty  34:03

Well, especially when all you do is eat sleep and breathe. Right or whatever your sport is.

Jolie Higazi  34:08

So how I see the little bit of a silver lining of like, it's almost like you die so someone else can live right on your on your the team, but how do you how did you cope with that?

Adam Daugherty  34:22

Didn't have much time? How did you something? Me I spent three and a half years in college playing baseball and you like going to class it's not like I was sleeping in everyday and not going into my classes, like most days going through in almost all my classes. So like I'd done well in college. But when it came to what am I going to do after college? I pretty much didn't care until that point. And then it was like okay, well you can keep half assing what you're doing, in which case the next step is also probably going to be half assed or you can suck it up. Stop doing what you've been doing. Every day for the last 20 to 18 years of your life, and figure out what you're going to do for the next 18 years of your life or give yourself a shot at least.

Jolie Higazi  35:11

So it forced you to mature and Yeah. Yeah. Do you ever think what would have happened if you didn't have that happen?

Adam Daugherty  35:19

I mean, I probably ended up would have done the same thing, just gone to grad school. I probably would have hated baseball more, because I would have stuck around for those three months and not really been able to do anything and watch everybody else play and enjoy themselves. Yeah,

Jolie Higazi  35:34

I mean, if you've never even had the injury?

Adam Daugherty  35:37

I mean, I won't I would have played. So that would have been?

Jolie Higazi  35:43

Do you think you'd be where you're at now?

Adam Daugherty  35:47

Coaching? Yes, somehow? I do. It's an interesting question. Because I don't know how much would have changed. Now. If I had stopped playing baseball, and ended up with a job that I really wanted to do, instead of going to grad school, then I think that would have been impossible to do if I would have kept playing baseball. Maybe I'd be a baseball coach now, as opposed to a fitness coach or, you know, Coach instead of a gym or something like that. But yeah, ironically, I don't know if it would have changed that much. Right. Like, my new my fate was sealed kind of a thing. Yeah. written in stone. Yeah,

Jolie Higazi  36:33

Not quite the story of the worst thing that happened, ended up painting this, like much better future. I was like, no,

Adam Daugherty  36:39

no, but it was just how bad future. So you know, I, if I had to choose between not being hurt, and what could have happened and being hurt, what could have happened? I'm pretty okay with being hurt. And what happened? Because, right? I don't know. I mean, like, I could have made different decisions throughout the course of my life, and maybe been in a better place. But like, you don't know if it's a better place unless you're actually in it. So I'm not in a bad place. I'm in a good place. This feels like it's something you know, don't look the gift horse in the mouth kind of thing.

Jolie Higazi  37:17

So all of this happened, fast forward, all of this happens. You realize you need to do something different. And then is that when you started shifting away from just business into No, I want to be a coach? No, not at all. So where did that happen?

Adam Daugherty  37:32

So I finished grad school. And I had a really good professor who was a part time professor because he was a brand analyst slash consultant slash all this other stuff. So he was the one who started introducing us. And it was a digital marketing class in grad school at Akron. And he was the one that started introducing us to the concept of like the experience economy where like people are dictating the experience you have with the brand, or the product, or whatever. And that shapes the sales process, kind of a thing. So he started getting me into that we started doing a lot of focus groups using a little bit of my research and market analysis type of background that had in grad school and undergrad. And basically speaking with people, right, so we would get hired sometimes by ad agencies, sometimes by companies to talk to their customers mostly, and figure out what they should do. Right? Maybe it was, we have two decisions that we're going to make this one or that one, and we just need to figure out which one it is. Maybe it's we need to figure out what path we're gonna go. We need to figure out if people even want this kind of thing. But essentially, we were creating lines of communication to solve a problem, right? or figure out what is the best path for them to try and solve the problem. And we were all over the place for focus groups were in Denver, Seattle. But the specific one that I'm thinking of we were in Brookfield, Wisconsin, which is like the middle of nowhere. And it's ironic because the home My hometown is Brookfield, right? So we're in Brookfield of another state. And we're sitting at a bar after we had done focus groups literally all day. And it's winter, it's freezing, it's like 30 degrees, and it's dark, right? Because it's dark, and we'd prefer Wisconsin at five o'clock. And we're sitting at the bar. And I had started doing CrossFit at this point. So I started in March 2011. And to me, it was trying to get back into the competitive side of things and like finding a sport where I could push myself and give myself a challenge for because I hadn't had it since baseball. About what five years before that. And I'm talking about it and he's asking me questions about it. He looks at me, he goes, you enjoy that a lot more than you enjoy doing marketing stuff. I'm like, Yeah, I'm working out. It's physical stuff. Why wouldn't I enjoy it more than my job? Like, duh, like, that doesn't make any sense. And he looks at me he goes, Why don't you just do Do that. And like, I had not thought about it as a profession, right? Like, it was just my hobby, the thing I did for fun, the thing I, you know, escape your job and your life and whatever. He's like, Have you ever thought about it? Like, no, I'm probably not gonna make as good of money as I'm making now. So why would I do that? Because we're just think about, it seems like something that might be good for you. So I didn't do anything, I was still living in Youngstown area. And like a month or two later, I ended up moving to Cleveland, because he lived in Cleveland in Beachwood. And it made it easier to get on planes to have meetings, you know, do stuff in person. So I was up here, and I started going to CLE. And they needed more coaches. So I was like, Well, I'd be willing to coach and then the owner at the time was like, alright, well, I'll pay for you to get your level one certification if you're willing to like work as a coach to pay back and everything. So again, it's fine. So I ended up coaching the lunch classes got my level one and all that.

Jolie Higazi  41:02

And still not thinking too deep. No,

Adam Daugherty  41:06

like it was part it was part of it, right. And I liked the marketing stuff, because I was good at it. And because it was a challenge. It wasn't necessarily fun. Yeah. And working from home every day, unless you're on site doing something was starting to become an insane drag, where I would just and for the people who don't know, like I have a functioning level of ADD, that's high functioning and can be hypertensive, like in terms of focus, but it's also there. So if I'm sitting there looking at my computer for an hour, I'm gonna lose my mind. I need to be moving somehow.

Jolie Higazi  41:44

It seems like a theme that you need to be challenged. Yeah,

Adam Daugherty  41:47

Yeah, there needs to be something that's creating intensity somehow. So I eventually just got tired of sitting there working. And I think I got my level one in October, started coaching in October. And then by January of the next year, I was coaching full time 9200 classes a month. And I think I ended up helping with like one other project at that point. But that was pretty much it. Partly because I didn't want to do the marketing stuff anymore. And but partly also because he found a contract where he was like a functioning SEO and that gave him incentive to not really have enough time to do the marketing stuff, either. So it just kind of naturally flowed that way. Yeah. Yeah, and then pretty much since then. So January of 2012, outside of COVID, or after I sold my gym, I've pretty much released into the point, I sold my gym and COVID. Coach 200 classes a month for all those years, which would explain how I got to almost 12,000 classes, as you alluded to earlier. So yeah, so yeah, it's just constant coaching. After coaching after coaching day after day after day.

Jolie Higazi  42:59

It's just interesting that it sounds like it happened by accident, you fell into this passion. Really, it was right in front of you without really thinking.

Adam Daugherty  43:08

It was the community that got me to do it. And I don't necessarily mean like, the gym with 100 people in it that everybody's trying to get you to be a coach. I mean, like, I was sitting there on my own all day long staring at my computer doing work. And I needed to be around people more. And going and coaching a class in the middle of the day, there may have been two at the time, I can't remember what it was. But I without spelling it out knew that I needed that where I was going to lose my mind. And then they started like interfering with each other, right? Like, if I'm coaching, I can't really get some of the work done on certain timeframes. And if I'm going and doing groups or something taken off for a day to do work, then I can't really coach. So then it kind of pushed its way into making a decision a little bit plus with him getting the other contract and stuff like that. So it naturally sort of happened. But the one thing I don't know is if I wouldn't put this past him if he took that contract, knowing that it would force me to go do this. And that was all part of his plan, which I could absolutely see being the case where maybe he would hear this and laugh and say how another smart like

Jolie Higazi  44:25

wow, was there a specific moment? It could be totally insignificant. But was there a moment while you were just doing the coaching here and there that it clicked for you that it was like, This is what I'm supposed to be doing? This is where

Adam Daugherty  44:38

I mean it's just fun. Like you I guess as a coach, you kind of have those moments, if that is the case. And it's never really not been the case for me. So I'm assuming for some people, it might not be the case if you know they might just be doing it as a side gig or hustle or something. But if that is the case, I feel like you kind of get one of those reminder moments. regularly?

Jolie Higazi  45:02

Or can you paint me like one of those? Those moments?

Adam Daugherty  45:06

Yeah, I mean, every once in a while you'll have somebody in the classes and I, I get exposed to more people than most being that I've worked at for gyms the last couple years. So like, there's way more people that I'm in contact with,

Jolie Higazi  45:20

And somehow for the record, you didn't get COVID 

Adam Daugherty  45:24

I didn't, I never tested positive or felt terrible. So, sidenote, knock on the woodlot enough that people can hear us but but I'm sure I've had it of some kind or been exposed to it somehow there's the impossible not to. But like, you, always you will come across somebody every now and then that will like, Thank you for helping them somehow or listening to them in some way. For example, there's somebody here, I noticed one day comes in the morning usually was just really rundown and beat up. And just like dragging, I'm like, okay, like, I sometimes sleep five hours a night and I feel like crap, the next morning, that makes sense, and happens again, and it happens yet. It happens again, then you start wondering, okay, now it's a trend now, like something's may be going on. So you start talking to somebody about it. And I found out from him that he had this weird kind of like, some nights I get good sleep, some nights, I get really terrible sleep. And there was some correlations, there wasn't some correlations. And the irony of just like knowing people and communicating with people, I had a friend that went and had a sleep apnea test, sleep study done. And I found out that he had sleep apnea. And I feel like opportunities for knowledge and stuff, expertise in life present themselves if you just pay attention. It's like, okay, well, I know somebody that was talking very much the same way that you are now that used to work out with me all the time. This is what he did, and it helped a little bit. Maybe this is something you need to pursue. He came up to me like a month ago and said, Thank you for listening to me talk about this. Because a month later, I went, we had the sleep test done. And I've been getting like two more hours or whatever it was asleep at night and asleep is 100 times better. And now he's feeling better. And he's doing better in the gym and all this stuff. Oh, he came up it the conversation started because he came up to me and asked how he could get better, because he didn't feel like he was getting any better. But he wasn't getting better, because he was sleeping like crap. And his body was beat up all the time. And he was constantly being rundown. So he's always chasing doing 75 pounds on something he's never progressing, when you could have actually been getting stronger and stronger if you'd actually been recovering and sleeping. So then we just kind of talk through it eventually got to that point. It's like stuff like that will pop up. Stuff like, for example, I'm moving to Detroit in two days, that timelines is for everybody. And pretty much every gym I've been at, people have been, quote unquote, upset and like, No, you're not going and you know, giving you the real emotion or giving me thank you cards or stuff like that. And that's probably not something everybody gets further job. I guess like if you leave your accounting firm and go to a different accounting firm, all your co workers or your clients sending you thank you cards, or upset that you're leaving, maybe not necessarily so that and that kind of I guess leads into a conversation about like, maybe it's, this was the path to get to because of how fulfilling it is. Maybe it's the one that gets to because it presents the most challenges to growth. Or maybe it's the one they get to because it's the most enjoyable because it's what I would have liked to do. If I was the person I'm working with anyway. No hobby.

Jolie Higazi  48:55

You would want to work with yourself.

Adam Daugherty  48:57

Yeah, but like, if I wasn't doing this for a living, I would still be in a gym every day myself. Yeah, right. Like I would still be the person that I'm coaching. Because I want I just like being in a gym every day, the gym rat concept from when you're kids kind of thing.

Jolie Higazi  49:12

Yeah. I feel like there's so many rabbit holes we can go into

Adam Daugherty  49:18

my brain is going in 19 tangents. Trying to push them all aside to keep the answer. I'm already

Jolie Higazi  49:23

thinking of like a part two and part three. All right, we have just a couple minutes. Let me let me just end with some rapid fire, if that's okay.

Jolie Higazi  49:41

But when you think of your coaching career, what's been the biggest growth area for yourself that you've had?

Adam Daugherty  50:00

Oh, that's easy actually science, right? Because like I've been in sports my whole life, I've been helping people, teammates, people that younger than me, I had a younger brother that's three years younger than me. So I'm used to having like younger athletes around me all the time. That's easy. The communication side of it's easy. For me, that's kind of what I'm naturally adept at are drawn to. But I had the business background. So learning the science side of it has been probably the most challenging part, which I kind of did when I was younger, just because I was really interested in training myself. So I would learn things so that I can help myself get better. But knowing which, ironically, is nice getting a surgeon, because she's always talking about muscles, and joints and bones that I have never heard in my life had not been trying to learn. Saying perfect. Yeah, that's that's how I know where I'm at, if I can understand what they're talking about when they're having conversations. Yeah, alright, well, this is good.

Jolie Higazi  51:00

Okay. What are you excited at this point in your career? What are you excited as your growth area that you see that's possible for you? From here?

Adam Daugherty  51:13

So, everybody, so I owned the gym for six years. And everybody always asked me since selling that, are you going to own gym get Sunday? Are you going to gym get some data? Well, yes, probably, I'm assuming. So like, you never really know what's you're going to do in the future, by example, the fact that I have business degrees, and I'm doing this for a living, but the plan is yes, to eventually own a gym someday. But what I'm trying to focus on now, mostly because I'm kind of all over the place. And now I'm going to Detroit and stuff like that is finding skills to learn and master. Right. So I feel pretty good about the communication side of stuff. I've been doing much better at the biology side of stuff, the Kinesiology side, the science side, is learning a little bit more of the technical stuff. Learning for instance. There are certain groups of muscles that I generally understand, but I don't technically understand. And I don't want to make it seem like I don't know if certain things that you know, but like, I understand how hamstrings function, but I don't necessarily, I want to be able to look at somebody moving and try and be able to figure out in which head of the bicep is doing the most work right now. Right? Which part of their back is functioning correctly or incorrectly just by the angles they're creating, and the way things are flowing the way that they angle their hips hinging. Right. So one of the strengths that I feel like I have is, I can see people and understand what they're feeling as they're moving, and what they're doing, not just how they're moving. Right, I think part of that is I have done so much moving in fitness stuff and hammered away at it trying to teach myself most of it, that I understand what's going right and going wrong in any given moment. Because I've probably felt that way. And I've always been somebody that can learn from others, as opposed to being the person that has to do it themselves to learn it. And I've also been somebody that can learn a lot from them little. So I feel like I'm pretty good at identifying things. But and this is another piece of irony. I almost want to learn more and more and more to start closing that gap between what I'm doing now and what a physical therapist would do. It's like, Oh, you made this decision. Now you're chasing it for the rest of your life kind of a thing. technical knowledge

Jolie Higazi  53:51

You’re someone with, you know, of course, once someone reached 10,000 hours, they're considered a pro. A master--

Adam Daugherty  53:59

Which, by the way is absolute crap. Because the not not that you don't know what you're doing or that you're actually that good. But because the closer you get to 10,000 hours, what's the what's the name of the curve, the bell curve, where it's like, you know what you're doing, you're very confident all of a sudden, you know, you don't know what you're doing. And then you start Yeah, that gets worse. The closer you get the 10,000 hours, you will get to a point if you care and you're putting it like this. I don't think anybody gets to 10,000 hours without caring and chasing that opportunity. But right around 9,000 to 10,000 hours I would say as I'm kind of estimating my years correctly, is where I was terrified because I really started to learn what I did not know. And while I knew more than most people, the holes that I was seeing. Worse, in my mind significant they probably aren't actually significant, but they were big enough that it created fear in me. More so than any of those 9000 hours before that, to try and learn things to close those holes,

Jolie Higazi  55:07

the more you know, the more you realize you don't know.

Adam Daugherty  55:09

exactly. And I think part of that concept is the fact that the more you know, the bigger pieces you get to the more significant the information as you get to. So once you get to the point where you realize what you don't know, that information you don't know, is fundamentally significant. And that's why it's partly so intimidating. But then you get to a point as well, where you see your peers, not knowing stuff that you know, but you don't know why it's wrong. You know, I mean, like, it's, I think of things like macro micro perspectives, technical, yeah, like, real tight on the micro perspective for that, but those are the things that like, I know, 95% of this concepts, but the 5%, I don't know, makes me feel incredibly inferior, even though 99% of the people next to me have no clue what that 5% Even is yet because they haven't gotten to that point.

Jolie Higazi  56:10

So maybe let's we'll end with this question. What is it that drives you?

Adam Daugherty  56:18

That would be the same thing that did when I was five. Because I don't want to do anything significant— this is kind of the most significant part of my life, you could argue, right? I don't want to, I don't want to do something significant in my life, if I'm not going to at least try to be the best at it. Right? And it's funny how, for example, I've noticed a lot of managerial programs, let's say right, so like, you know, the common ones are like enterprise or whatever. A lot of these managerial programs are going after student athletes, right? Because I think part of their focus is the student athlete is competitive, and they're going to push themselves. And to me, that's probably one of the fundamental reasons why every kid should at least try sports, or try something. Because now we have eSports and other stuff that creates competition. Because if you stick with it long enough, you will eventually learn that competition isn't about teaching you how to be better than somebody else. It's about teaching you how to better yourself. Right? So we had a coach when I was 16. That said, baseball was you against yourself. Right when I'm hitting? Yeah, I'm one to one with a pitcher. But their pitch isn't changing. Based on how well I'm performing. I'm still seeing the ball the same, the ball still going to the same place. When I'm standing at third base and somebody hits the ground ball, no matter how good I am, that ground ball is still going to bounce the same exact way. Right? The scenarios in life are going to be the same thing, regardless of my performance or capability level, my ability to handle them, get through them or strive past them, right, like some kind of greater Accomplishment from that scenario, is simply dependent on how well I can handle that situation, how well I can handle that knowledge, you know, how I prepared myself and how well I can handle the opportunity that presents itself. So the greatest fear here, the thing that scares me the most, that I think drives my motivation, and my competitive side is that tomorrow, I won't be better than I am today. A year from now, I won't be better than I am today.

Jolie Higazi  58:51

So why is it so scary?

Adam Daugherty  58:55

I just seems like I think this is part of like the add in the perfectionist in me and the OCD and everything. Like if you're not getting better, you're getting worse. And if you're not getting better, and this kind of goes back to baseball every year basketball every year, if I'm not getting better, somebody else is getting better. And then I'm going to be inferior, right? Like it's not true, necessarily, right? Because again, you're competing against yourself. But that I'm going to outwork every thing and every buddy from when I was a kid, I think because I wasn't the most athletic kid. And I had, like there was always somebody more athletic, there was always somebody, there was always somebody stronger. That kind of instilled in me. I'm gonna go into the basement and I'm gonna hit off this tee for an hour every day. Because eventually I'm going to be better than the person that is beating me. And maybe that's not the healthiest, healthiest thing on the planet to have like that back and forth between I'm going to beat myself and I'm going to beat somebody else right like maybe the I'm going to beat myself is healthier. But I'm hearing motivates me, well,

Jolie Higazi  1:00:03

I'm hearing that growth mindset that you don't see a limit to your potential.

Adam Daugherty  1:00:07

I mean, I don't think anybody necessarily has a limit to their potential, as long as they're pursuing something that actually makes sense, right? Like, I'm 38 years old, I'm not gonna go drive an F1  car at any point in my life, other than maybe stealing it and driving it around the path or something. I mean, like, if I'm not making a dumb decision, then I don't really have a limit to the potential as long as I'm willing to work for it and take advantage of the opportunities when they present themselves. But you need both of those, you have to have the willingness to sacrifice and work for it. And you have to be mentally and emotionally capable of pursuing something once it comes in front of you. Which I think is usually the trickier part from people.

Jolie Higazi  1:00:58

Oh, and that's something you've characterized throughout your whole your whole life, just this whole story. Alright. Thanks. That makes me sound pretty cool. Well, we're here at time, I feel like we could easily I have a bunch of questions. We didn't even have time for it. Right? We could easily do a part two, or even a part three,

Adam Daugherty  1:01:14

just gonna put a clock that says stop talking for this question. But the point,

Jolie Higazi  1:01:18

and the stories are great, right, it all comes back to this ingrained need, or this this drive for challenge and growth. And with that is it's so contradictory, because there's a lot of high driven growth people, but you also have the people side and the community. That's since you were young, that stayed with you is such an integral part. So

Adam Daugherty  1:01:48

I feel like everybody has the ability to be great at something. The people that aren't or don't feel like that's true. I've just not figured out what they can be great at. Right? Like, it's once you find the hole, I have never worked a day in my life, if I love what I do concepts, which isn't necessarily true. There's some days that are kind of shitty, and I feel like I'm working. I don't want to be working. But once you find that opportunity, everybody is capable of getting to that point. If you're willing to make the decisions to try and get there, which are sometimes not the easiest decisions in the world to make. But if that's who you are, and that's what you're going to do, then that's what you're going to do.

Jolie Higazi  1:02:36

Well, Adam, thank you so much. Yeah, I feel like we could easily pick up another episode just there with this more of this advice that you would have.

Adam Daugherty  1:02:44

Well, maybe I have learned some more wisdom after being in Detroit for a little while.

Jolie Higazi  1:02:47

All right, well, we'll do a round two for sure. All right, cool. Well, thanks.